IoT and the Future of Banking, with Jorge and Javier | Ep. 75

Episode 75

Javier Hernandez, Project Delivery Manager, and Jorge Fernandez, Service Specialist at Santander Global Tech & Operations, hold inspiring discussions on the concept of IoT (Internet of Things) and why its banking application can shape the industry's future. They explore the idea of 'BoT' (Banking of Things) and how it can transform customer experiences for the better, alongside improvements to data analytics, security, and sustainability.

Episode 75


Episode Summary

What is Banking of Things?

BoT is the use of IoT technologies to improve and elevate banking services. This can range across various financial products, from ATMs to smartphones to credit cards - all connected by the Internet. These devices communicate with each other, allowing banks to analyse collected data and improve customer experience as a result by tailoring it to their needs and habits. Essentially, BoT is the next step towards more effective, efficient, and easier banking.

Real examples

Jorge and Javier explored several key use cases for BoT. These range across various sectors, but some of the most important ones are:

  • Real-time branch updates - IoT technologies can show how many people are in a branch, which services are functioning, which areas are at maximum capacity, etc. This information level helps banks and customers make better decisions in their own time.
  • User identification - biometric patterns such as fingerprints can help improve security measures since they are easier to protect and lead to quicker functionality in services like branch check-ins.
  • Employee efficiency - staff can also enter the branch for work and have deeper insights on customer behaviours, based on the data which BoT services collect, allowing them to provide greater customer service.

The future branch

With increasing digitalisation, it's easy to see why physical branches may become obsolete. After all, doesn't digital banking just make everything faster? BoT aims to revitalise the physical branch in light of this by introducing added value through the secondary services available in-branch. A "connected" branch. Santander's Work Cafés are leading the way, implementing meeting rooms, fiber-optic broadband, events, and communal spaces within the bank itself. Customers will be able to visit the future branch - not because they have to - but because they want to.

This article summarises podcast episode 75 "IoT and the Future of Banking" recorded by CX Insider. For more information, listen to the episode, or contact Jorge and Javier on their LinkedIn profiles.

Written by Marcell Debreceni



Full episode transcript

Javier: If you're able to identify in real-time what branch is the most suitable for you, instead of maybe going to the nearest branch to you - and for whatever reason that branch is not available at the moment or it's quite busy, or it cannot tend to you as you expected - to have all that information to make the decision. The right decision for us is a value.

Valentina: Hello, everybody, and welcome to another episode of CX Insider. In today's episode, Greg and I talked to two guests, Jorge Fernandez Villa, who is a service specialist, and Javier Diaz Hernandez, a project delivery manager. Both of them work for Santander Global Technology and Operations Division, based in Madrid. Today we talked about IoT, the Internet of Things with banking applications, the future of retail, banking, and sustainability. Enjoy the episode and let us know what you think on social media. By the way, this podcast is sponsored by ACF Technologies, Global Leaders in Customer Experience Management Solutions.

Javier: Hi everyone. First of all, we would like to thank you, Valentina, Greg, and Marcell, for inviting us to be part of this initiative, which we think is... It's great to have this sort of initiative to talk about technology trends in our day-to-day. So thanks a lot for having us today. And if it is okay with you, I would like to do a quick introduction of ourselves: Jorge Fernandez and myself Javier Diaz and we work for Santander. We belong to the technology and operation division, and as a part of that, we are responsible for developing and implementing end-to-end solutions for our customers worldwide. And using the latest technologies possible and also using the best methodology that we can apply, not just traditional waterfall methodologies, but also we are using agile technologies and methodologies where they are applicable and also a part of our job. We have to help our customers to define and maintain their ideal strategy. For example, when a technology becomes obsolete, we are responsible for helping them to change that technology in a short period of time and trying to make as small an impact as possible in their business. Jorge and myself, we have mostly focused on retail banking, trying to have our processes within the branch as efficient as possible and also trying to have the best customer experience possible.

Javier: And recently, we have been organizing internally in Centre of Excellence. We belong to the Full Stack Centre of Excellence. We are trying to leverage all the benefits that a Centre of Excellence can provide our customers, not just solutions as we are doing already, but also exploring new technologies, new frameworks, and new methodologies. All of this helps them to have to improve their business as much as possible. And as I said, it's a pleasure to be here today. So if you want to add something yourself, Jorge?

Jorge: Also, thanks to all of you for inviting us to this podcast. And as Javi has said, the reason why we are here is that this year, we organized a Banking of Things forum event. When we try to explain to all the members of Santander how IoT can help in our banking processes, what IoT is and how it can be used in our banking business. So the things that we are doing right now, we are trying to foster the use of IoT in banking, which is not something really easy because sometimes we need some blockages from people. You know, you need to be always changing your money, and your business is complicated, but we are where we really focus on that. So hopefully, during this last year, we will develop this new concept of Banking of Things.

Greg: And you guys are based in Madrid, right? Have you lived there for a long time? Have you always lived there?

Jorge: Yeah. Well, on my part, I've been living here all my life. Only three years. I believe in Milton Keynes. I've been working for Santander UK for three years, so it was like a small period of my life. I've been living there in the UK, but after that, I returned again to Madrid, and I started to work again for Santander Bank.

Javier: I also spent seven years working in Ireland for a software company, and after that, I moved to Madrid and have been there since, working for Santander.

Greg: And how does Milton Keynes compare to Madrid?

Jorge: Well, that's a tricky question. You can imagine now it's quite different, you know. Well, I really enjoyed it a lot, you know, when I was living there. It's a big difference. It's a small, small city compared with Madrid. It's a big, big mess. In fact, I live on the outskirts of Madrid because I don't like, you know, all these noisy cities and all the traffic jams and all those things. So I prefer to have a different quality of life. So for me, it's not a big issue. Living in Milton Keynes, in fact, I just I enjoy it a lot. And I must say that I love the country and the UK. I think it has amazing places to visit. And not only London, you know, all the people, but it's also always thinking you have to go to the UK, you must definitely visit London. But there are so many places that you also have to visit there in the UK, which is really amazing. So for me, it was a marvellous experience.

Valentina: The concept of IoT was born at the beginning of the 21st century. Around 2000, industry leaders started experimenting with connected devices. In June 2000, LG introduced its first connected device: a refrigerator. Since then, IoT has started being integrated into many different industries. Fast forward to the present day. Between 2021 and 2026, IoT in the banking market is expected to grow at a compound annual growth rate of 18.58%. Despite the wide application of this concept, many people might not be sure what opportunities and risks IoT entails.

Javier: As you said, Greg, before explaining what Banking of Things is, we need to stop and say exactly what the Internet of Things? We need to understand first what the Internet of Things is because, at the end of the day, Banking of Things is an extension of it. Internet of Things is about interconnecting devices. Normal devices are everyday devices that we have in our life around us. These devices are interconnected. Sharing, first of all, collecting data, sharing this data, and allowing us to, based on that massive amount of data, to make decisions both in real-time and also after some time. In both cases, this gathering of data allows us to have better processes and better customer experience. If we talk, for example, about banking now, we will talk about Banking of Things. But the main idea is all this gathering of information will give us a better position to make decisions. And we can see that around our lives in many, many sectors like industry, sports, food, health, etc., Banking of Things, as I said, is just an extension of the Internet of Things. It's applying this concept in banking in order to improve our processes and improve the experience we have with our customers. And I would say that we are exploring Banking of Things because we really believe that it can make a difference in our banking processes. In some of them, at least.

Jorge: Yeah. Well, in fact, I think that adding to what Javi has said before, I think that something really important is that we need to understand that even having all this data that all the devices can provide, it makes no sense if we don't extract any value from this data.

Jorge: Internet of Things is not so much technology. It's more a concept that tries to digitalize the physical world in order to generate new value. And this value can be created in many different ways. I mean by product improvement, operational efficiency, and a better customer experience. And therefore, what we have to have clear is what would you want to generate? So the real thing for this is the value that we get with this Internet of Things. So it's critical that the key is the value. It's always that critical. We can use a lot of devices. We can collect a lot of data. But it is really critical. Is this is the use that we do with those data, as an example that I can say about this? My brother-in-law lives in the Canary Islands. He's been growing tomatoes, I think, from 20 years ago. The first time I went there, I visited the only houses we have there. It was amazing because it was 20 years ago he was using a lot of sensors. Obviously, they were not connected by Wi-Fi or 5G. They were connected by a wire. But he was able 20 years ago to know exactly the humidity and nutrients that the plants have.

Jorge: And with an old computer, he could program everything to give to the food, what the food really needs. So what is important the in this case, for this family, my brother-in-law is not all those data that comes in a big amount. And you say, oh, come on. And getting all of the data. No. It's the value that he gets with those data. I mean, the value for him is that his tomatoes grow big with a lot of flavors and savor, all those things. That's what's really, really important. So the key is the value. That's what we really need to provide with this Internet of Things. And as I said before, there are other places on our industry that are also making use of IoT. For example, I don't know if you like Formula One, but, you know, with all those telematics systems, they don't only know what is happening in the car, they also can change in real-time car behavior. So they can improve. So that's the thing. The thing is, what's the value that those data give to us? As a curious example, in this event, one of the companies I was talking to there said that they are also using microphones on brown farms because they know that the more they talk, the better they grow. So it's really amazing. So, as we have said before, what is really important is the value. So, that's what we think we should focus on this.

Greg: I love that. And I think that's part of this whole conversation because the Internet of Things, Banking of Things, like you say, is the immediate access to data. But it comes down to what you both said, which is how you use that data. Do you use it in the moment or do you use it for future decisions? And that sounds like Farming of Things. So we might have to coin that term as Farming of Thing today.

Greg: We might invite your brother-in-law to give his perspective later. But that's a fantastic story. And actually, that is, I guess, the same concept. That's the same theory. It's using that data in real-time to make decisions for now and for the future.

Valentina: Looking at the Banking of Things through the lens of customer experience, how does the interconnectivity of different devices improve CX?

Jorge: Well, I think that one of the devices that have been using Internet of Things in banking is the ATM. ATMs since a long time ago has been connected, answering data. Many data are used by business but not known by the customer. But we would like to move forward on this. We would like to do a new step on this, and we would like to start to use this Banking of Things in the branch. So we believe that the future will feature a new model of the connected branches. We talk a lot about this in our banking forums. Sorry, our in our banking forum. And our idea is that we would like to keep our branches with some kind of device so that once the user enters the branch, it's automatically recognized. So and things can happen that will improve the user experience. Imagine that you get into the branch. You have done an enrolment process of the biometric or facial biometric pattern, and when you enter your branch, you imagine that you have an automatic queue system. So you can get your ticket automatically, and you can do your checking automatically when you arrive. That's I think that will also improve this behavior, more things. So we also want to use our biometric patterns for other things. For example, we would like to use them to do a cash withdrawal. Right now, there are a lot of companies doing some kind of R&D in all this finger vein banding and all those things.

Jorge: And we will also like to add this to our customer experience. Okay. And regarding data, the ATMs, we have said before we would like to add to our ATMs of new functionality that allows a lot of them to know via an application. But in real-time, if an ATM in a specific branch is working because right now, what they know is that there is an ATM there. But sometimes you go to the branch, but it could have been vandalized. It could be broken. It could be offline. It could have been out of money. So the thing is that you can get that information online. So you are going to work on a specific branch if you don't know exactly that it is working there. And what we could know with that, we could also check in the branch. How many people are right now in the branch? So depending on the number of people that it's in that moment, in that branch, you could decide to go to a brand or to another one, even if it's farther from where you are right now because you're going to be attending in less time. And these are sometimes just these cases that we are working with regarding branches.

Javier: This is a concept that we if we had a couple of months ago, we were known as the connected branch. We want to see it as a branch where the customer or the non-customer and the branch are somehow connected. So their experience of them can be much better than it is at the moment because they will be able to gather the information that will allow them to make decisions. Again, IoT and the Banking of Things are about making decisions based on data. So these decisions will allow them to have possibly a better experience at the branch, for example. Jorge has mentioned a couple of things. If you can identify in real time what branch is the most suitable for you? Instead of maybe going to the nearest branch to you, and for whatever reason that branch is not available at the moment or it is quite busy, or it cannot tend to you as expected to have all that information to make the decision. The right decision for us is a value.

Jorge: And in fact, it's also going to be valuable for the branch staff, because they will also know when they arrive at the branch and they can go there and be. Faster and go with personalized product info, whatever that the user really requires.

Javier: And as Jorge mentioned, another key concept for us, Greg and Valentina, is that our body should be our ID. We should go to that scenario where we should be able to identify ourselves within the branch as we're talking about the branch with some part of our body. And after that, the branch should be able to provide information to do with us, particularly with us, because they already know who we are as soon as we enter the branch. So all this is in order to try to have a better experience, a better customer experience. And as I said, even for the branch employees to have more efficient processes.

Jorge: But we are right now only focusing on branches. But there are other sectors in banking that we can also apply this Internet of Things or this Banking of Things, for example, insurance. Insurances are really, really part of the banking business. Imagine. And in fact, the big techs are also moving on this play on the insurance sector. I mean, imagine that you could create a product that depending on the information that you send with your devices. Imagine you go to run every day or you do some sports four days per week or you walk a number of steps daily, you get a reduce on your prime. Okay. So that could be also great. Why not? The thing is and in fact, we are working on this with our business departments. And the thing is, we need to analyze this very well, because this is something really, really funny. I mean, sometimes if people start to do some kind of workouts because they want to get a decrease in their prime. What could happen is that they could start to have more health issues that they had when they didn't do any kind of workout. Heart attacks, you know, problems with your legs, your back, whatever. So at the end, that could not be a good product. So it's really complicated to find exactly the right product and the right benefits, but it could return to business and also to the user. To the customer.

Javier: Yeah. Another example would be, as you said, the mortgages, another banking product we could also leverage with the use of Internet of Things, all this information that we can gather to to improve the product we are offering to our customers here. I'm sure we have listened to that. We have heard the concept of green mortgages, for example. The concept here is that using IoT or using BoT, we are able to offer our customers a more efficient product because it's based on information that is collecting from our own house. Behaviours we have within our own house and all this information can be used in order to make or to offer a better product to our customers. We know that information is the new goal and obviously Internet of things and banking of things are based on information. And as we said, making the right decisions.

Valentina: Adding connectivity to so many devices, bring an extra load of challenges. Now let's leave device compatibility to the engineers. At the end of the day, this is a CX podcast. So the first thing that comes to mind is...

Javier: Security. We have to guarantee that the IoT solutions we implement are secure. At the end of the day, we are sharing data - sensible data in most cases. And we have to be sure that this exchange of information and even the process of that information has to be done in a secure matter. But not just security, because the experts we have at the event, they sort of guarantee us that the technology already is secure. We don't have to worry about the security of the technologies. We have to focus on that. On that, as I mentioned earlier, the value that these solutions can provide to business. But security is one of the challenges for sure. Another challenge, and Jorge can go into more detail, is the trust that we have to build with our customers with this concept of IoT.

Jorge: Yeah, this is something that we have discussed internally several times. You know, it's the customers who make the deposit, give us their money. You know, they give us their money. They put it in our accounts and we keep their money. They trust a lot on those things, which is really important from them. Money. And we give mortgages. So a lot of things. But the thing is, when you come to the point that they have to share with us their biometric patterns, they are really reluctant to do that. You know, they trust a lot on these big companies like Samsung and Apple. And when you buy your phone, you know, all of us start to use them with our biometrics. And a lot of them, they don't know what really happen with their biometric data. They know they are there and you don't know. And sometimes you buy in any of these markets, this new connector plugs or any device that you sell at your home and you have their working those web cams that you install at your home that you buy from a Chinese provider. I have in fact, I have one now looking at me. And you don't know what really happening with your data. But what happens in the end is they have to to share with them with us their biometric patterns. They could feel very reluctant about that. "Oh, this is a bank. I don't like banks having my personal data or having my biometric patterns at the end." We don't have the biometric data because all those things only work with some kind of pattern. We could in another session, we could have, we could go more in detail about this. But the thing is that they don't trust banks for those things, although they give us their money, we give them mortgages and all those things at the end. It's really complicated to get their trust on on those on those things. So this is something that we must change in order to to be able to to move ahead with all those needs, new solutions.

Greg: Yeah. Trust is. Trust is a difficult one. Very difficult one to solve. I totally understand that. Because trust is earned and it's not bought, you can't force trust upon people. It's a very difficult dynamic in in every element of society, isn't it? So how have you started to try and overcome that? Is it just by the process of being a trustworthy brand and doing what you say, or have you tried other approaches?

Javier: I could say, Greg, that one of the things you can do to work on that, on that trust is to explain very well to the customer how this works. Exactly. I think there are a lot of ideas behind all this biometric, IoT, etc. that could prevent us going further because we believe that someone is going to keep information to do with us in a particular location. And I think it's important to explain very well. The concept of education here is very important as it is always. Okay, we have to we have to try to explain very well to our customers how exactly this works, because possibly if we do that, we are going to be able to gain part of that trust.

Jorge: And it's also... I think what Javi says is really, really accurate. But I think it's also important that they understand that we want to use those data to improve their user experience. So it's not because the banks want to use our data for anything. That's not the reality of this. The thing is that in order to improve the user experience, we need those data. It's like, obviously we could still be using, you know, the pin, the old pin in our phones, but no one is doing that anymore. Well, so some people will be doing it, but it's not the normal way to use that. So that's also really important we need it's not also it's not only part or a problem with the customer. It's also we need to look inside us and say we need to provide a good user experience. So the user wants to provide those data to get those new functionalities. Imagine if you go to an ATM, you can use your fingerprint to get money, a pin and your fingerprint. For me, that would be great. So I want to provide with the bank my fingerprint pattern so I can make use of these new functionalities. So coming to the point that we have said before, what is really important is the value. We provide value to our customers. They will want to use these technologies. And in fact, you know that the banks I think that they are probably the most regulated companies that exist in the world. So you cannot imagine that. Imagine that if we start to provide those services, we are going to be 100% sure that we are complying with all the different legal things that could be unimaginable in Spain, in Spain and the European Union. And if we move to UK in this case with the UK regulation so they can trust us much more probably than many other companies.

Javier: Our experience when we talk to employees or customers or non-customers about what this could provide them. What could this IoT or BoT do for them? When you when you talk to them, as you said, through transparency and upfront, they really see the benefit of this and they are up for it. I think there is a real, real feeling of this is good for us or could be good for us, so let's explore it. That was one of the ideas we had behind the event. We want to explore this and break the walls and explain what it is exactly.

Jorge: And in fact, there is also one thing that we have not said is this will improve security. Security is better if you use this kind of security access, this kind of biometric systems. The security is better. So it's not only that it will provide new features, it is that it is even more secure.

Valentina: Because adoption of IoT is such a massive opportunity that requires expertise, strong leadership, and technical talent. The company came up with a brilliant idea. Let's invite everyone to a two-day event where we can all share our knowledge and benefit from it.

Javier: As I mentioned at the introduction, we are now part of the Centre of Excellence. We are where our normal activity would be to deliver end to end solutions to our customers based on mature technologies and frameworks and methodologies. But another part of our job has to be to explore new concepts, new technologies that anything that we think, as a Centre of Excellence, that could help improve our processes within Santander. As part of that, we thought last year that it would be a good idea to organise a two day event to talk about Internet of Things, but obviously focus in banking. So that's why we called the event Banking or Things forum where the main idea was to get together the techy guys and the business guys within Santander to talk and discuss about IoT, BoT and see where we are at the moment, see what exactly is being done out there outside Santander to do with IoT. See what we are doing if we are doing something to do with IoT and how this could help in the future. We were lucky enough to have not just professionals within Santander from United Kingdom, Portugal or USA, for example, but also we were able to have people that are referenced in this IoT area from companies as important as Microsoft, Amazon, etc., I don't want to forget any. We also had at the end of the event a little time for talk about Metaverse and how this could or is changing our lives and the way our working days are going to be in a very near future for us. Greg, we have to say it was a massive experience. To get together technology and business for this or these two days. Talking about these concepts in presentations, as I said, very valuable presentations. We were able to have a clear picture of what exactly has been done using IoT outside our company, but also the possibilities of IoT within our company. And there was a lot of expectation about the event. So we will have hopefully next year we will have a second edition because I think that the feedback has been quite positive about the event. So and Jorge said you are invited to be part of the next event because I'm sure that there will be a lot, a lot of things to say and you can participate in the forums. We have to discuss as we are here today to talk about this, this concept.

Jorge: And in fact, this is an online event, so you can do it as you are doing right now.

Greg: Oh, okay. Fantastic. Yeah. I love the idea of when you have events. The biggest thing that I find comes out of events is when you have multiple people talking on a subject. Something happens in that moment. That is almost hard to explain. But there is like, there's an old saying when you have like four people speaking, there are four people speaking, but there are five brains at work. And the fifth brain is the combination of all four. And I've always loved that theory and I've always believed in it because there is something unique about when people get together, whether it's virtually or in person, when people do get together with a shared topic and goal. Some incredible things can happen and I guess that is what forums are about. That's what events are about.

Javier: Totally.

Greg: Yeah, I've always loved that.

Valentina: Considering that retail footfall is steadily going down and banks across the world are closing branches as a consequence. Let's conceptualise what can the bank's physical space offer to people and what role IoT plays in the offering.

Javier: My opinion and the opinion of many of the experts we have at the event is that the branch will not disappear in the next coming years. The branch is to remain because it is offering value to some part of the population and it will keep doing that. But what we have to do and it's already been done and Santander is I think is a clear example of it, the branch has to reinvent itself. We have to forget the idea of the traditional branch as we know it. And we have to do the branch to to to make that branch would be a more collaborative way, a space, physical space to get together people not just bank and customers or non customers, but even we have to promote networking within our branches. We have to promote, as we said earlier, education about the new ways of doing things. The branch is a perfect place to get together our customers and explain to them concepts that we think are relevant to the new branch. So my opinion, the branch has to remain. That's why we are here trying to explore new ideas for the branch. The physical space. But obviously it's a reality that many people are not going to the branch and are doing anything that they need using different channels. But the branch is another channel. We have to give them value and we have to fight for it.

Jorge: I think just to add something to what Javi said before, as I say, the branch is going to stay, but it's going to be a new branch. You know, with all of these new apps banking out where you can do all your usual transactions from your home or from wherever you are. We need to to reconvert the branch to a different thing. And it's something that in this case, Santander Bank and some other banks have created a new type of branch with. And the idea is that the user or the customer doesn't go to the branch because they have to is because they want to. I don't know if you have ever been in a Work Café. No? Well, I think it's amazing if you go, because even for me, the first time that I went, I say, come on, this is a Starbucks? It's quite different. It's true. You know, it's a mix. Between our branch and a work centre. So even if you are not a customer, you can go there and you can sit in one desk, use the Wi-Fi and work from there. If you want to go and get a coffee, you get and you stay there and you can be working. It doesn't matter if you are a customer or not. And the idea is you have some meeting rooms. You can book them depending if you are a customer or not. I don't know exactly the rules. But the thing is that the brand should also help our customers to improve their business. Imagine I work as a Santander Bank customer and I want to go to the branch because I need to have a meeting with a customer and I don't have any place to do it. I can book one of the meeting rooms that are there in the branch and I can have my meeting with my own customers there. So the thing is that the branch has changed a lot and it will change more in the future.

Valentina: The country that immediately appears in your mind when it comes to IoT is China. China's IoT connection contributes to 30% of the global total. We can say that China is shaping this transformation, but can we apply what they are doing in other countries?

Javier: Well, now that you mention China, within the event, there was someone on a speaker that... He talked about his own experience as an architect. And he has been working in China for a period of time. And the branches that are now being built in China are these places where you actually want to be. You feel really comfortable to be because you have all the facilities. They are really thinking. They are very customer centric. It's not just a place to go to do some banking transaction, but also it's a place where you can go and feel very comfortable and do mention a number of different activities. So in China, as you said, this is one of the places, Asia is one of the places where Internet of Things is is valued a lot. And I would like to back to the concept of Connected Branch. What we have to go is to a concept on a scenario where all this information should help us to build a much better experience for our customer, that he should be able to go to the branch and have that experience, that he is actually enjoying the experience and doing what he wanted to do with the branch and. This trend that we have in Asia maybe or this. How deep is IoT in Asia, for example? Hopefully we will see it in Europe. It depends on many factors. We mentioned security, we mentioned regulation. We mentioned trust. I think there are still many not physical but logical barriers that we need to fight against. But I am optimistic about it. I think that as Jorge mentioned a couple of times during the podcast, the importance is the value we can offer, and I think IoT can provide a lot of value, so we will have to offer it definitely.

Jorge: Depending on the country, not the same product could be suitable for each country. For example, in a car insurance in the USA the prices are really, really high or in UK. When I bought my first car in UK, I say, come on. Why do I have to pay so much money for my car insurance? And this is quite different because it goes on you not on your car in Spain, you get an insurance car. Each one that runs or drives your car is covered. But in UK not. If any other people is going to use, a person is going to use your car. You have to do a different plan to your insurance coverage. So the thing is that we were talking the other day in our bank with some people that is in charge of this of the insurance department. And the thing is that if we use that product of this tool in our country, the amount of the plan is so low that we will never get any benefit. But if you go to USA or you go to UK as the prices are so high, you can do this type of discount. So this that product will be suitable for UK or USA but will never be used, you know, useful for Spain because we cannot get any profit even doing a discount. I don't know if that makes sense.

Greg: That does make a lot of sense I think that's a great example there of how trends evolve worldwide for many different reasons. It's not just as simple as everyone will use Banking of Things in the same way. And like you say in certain countries, if we bring it back to the banking of things, technology like Internet of Things and so these sort of methodologies, they might play out in different value propositions for different countries. So one country or one market might see more benefit in the day to day operations versus the customer experience.

Valentina: Lastly, the most trending topic in the banking industry, just like in all other, is sustainability. How is IoT contributing to building sustainable solutions?

Javier: IoT is a great thing for sustainability to create sustainable applications and sustainable solutions. We all have heard about intelligent buildings where all the information that is being gathered from the normal activity of the building is being used to make it more efficient, to turn off, turn off lights, etc., etc.. The same concept we can. We mentioned earlier that the green mortgages is another example where we can see that we can help not just the pocket of our customers, but also we can help the environment. We can make sustainable solutions and definitely sustainability was a topic that we saw in our event, there were some speakers that gave some very interesting speeches about how IoT can help sustainability. Anything that you can do. Gathering information to create more efficient processes in order to help the environment has to has to be important. Here we have, for example, I would like to have an example that happened this weekend in Spain. We are at the moment we have the will to start our cycling, our cycling competition, annual competition. We have sort of like the tour if you know, within France, for example, where La Volta is around the Spain. And we have the news in the papers this weekend that the cars following the cyclists had IoT devices in order to see how the drivers were doing their job. Behind the cyclists and the way they were behaving they were driving etc., etc. to gather that information and to make it more efficient for the environment. This is an example. We have so many.

Jorge: Well, we try to come back to the banking. As I say at the beginning, the green mortgages is a product that a lot of people are talking about. But right now, as far as we know, it's not really there. Banks offer some type of discounts depending on some check that could happen on your house. I don't know if you have that, in your case, energetic certificate that we have to get. You also have to get there. So dependent in this in that certificate, you could get a small discount in your mortgage. But the thing ere is quite different because as we have said at the beginning, is that, what is the value here? I mean, there is no return of investment for banking. I mean, if we foster that you use green energies, what is the benefit for the bank? Because as we have said before, you know, the primes in Spain are really, really tight. So here, this would be a change in mind of the companies we are all impacted by the sustainability issues. And mainly right now, you know that I think it was today. Today Russia has stopped the gas or stop sending gas by these natural systems. So it's not only an economic issue. The thing is that we should all, all the companies, you know, big ones, the small ones should try to foster the use of these energies. So perhaps sometimes there is not an economic return, there is not an economic value. But I think this is something that all in our small part or big part, we say to first to foster and banks, also to have a big, big part on this.

Javier: There are many things you can do, Valentina. I'm now just remembering something that is quite simple, but it has its impact on sustainability. If we are able, as we said earlier, to ID ourselves using our body, we will be able maybe one day to avoid all these cards or this plastic we are using to identify ourselves and our account numbers and etc., etc.. So everything, everything counts in order to make a more sustainable world. And I would say IoT has its own place on this and can, can help us a lot as well.

Jorge: Yeah. And even if you don't have to take your car to go to the branch and you move only to one branch and you don't have to move to another one in some way, you are being ecological because you are you are spending less fuel or whatever.

Valentina: I hope you enjoyed listening to the podcast if you did. Don't forget to like share, comment or subscribe to the podcast on your preferred channel if you enjoyed what Jorge and Javier were talking about, feel free to connect with them on LinkedIn. Enjoy your rapid fire questions. That's it from me. I will see you in two weeks. And by the way, this podcast is sponsored by ACF Technologies, Global Leaders and Customer Experience Management Solutions. My first question is beach or mountains?

Javier: What was the bitter mountain? Sorry. I didn't get that.

Valentina: Beach or mountains. What do you prefer? A beach or mountain?

Javier: Oh, sorry. Definitely beach. Come on. You are from the island. So what would you say? Being from the Canaries, that question is simple for me. Do you want to start again? Do it again. So we have us play your question. Okay.

Valentina: Second question. Text messages or voice messages?

Javier: Text messages. Text messages.

Valentina: Pepperoni pizza or cheese?

Jorge: Pizza or pepperoni.

Javier: Cheese pizza.

Valentina: Rocky Beach. Sandy Beach.

Javier: Sandy Beach.

Valentina: Real Madrid, Atlético Madrid or other?

Greg: Javier, who is the other? You said other. Who do you support?

Javier: Are we still recording or...

Valentina: No, we're not.

Javier: I'm a Barcelona fan. And if I have to choose and if I have to choose, obviously it would be Atlético Madrid.

Jorge: Yeah. There's a reason they always have the same problem. They do not support a team. They are...

Javier: No, no, no. I support Barcelona.

Jorge: They are contra-Real Madrid. Counter Real Madrid. Maybe it doesn't matter if you got Arsenal. You are going either. You know it doesn't matter. You are going to say something about that.

Greg: I was going to say when we were talking about the rapid fire questions, we came up with the idea Real Madrid versus Atlético Madrid. And we spoke to Antonio, obviously our colleague in Spain, and he said they'll probably say Barcelona as well. So he said it will either be one of the three. So that's why I had to ask is what's the third one? And you said Barcelona.

Javier: To be honest with you. I was also thinking in my home team from the Canaries. Small team, they never they never win anything. It's second division. I was actually also thinking on that. I prefer to say that on Real Madrid or Atlético Madrid, they have so many supporters around the world. But my final, my final answer. My definitive answer is other. Okay, I want to leave it like that.